Category: Podcasts

Lise Nox interviews Daniel Correa, lead singer of Miami indie rock outfit The Collective Bus. They talk about re-adjusting to the music scene after the pandemic, the pop punk revival, his relationship with his audience and more.

FULL TRANSCRIPT OF EPISODE
Provided by Otter.ai

Lise Nox  0:00
The views and opinions expressed during Eye on the Triangle do not represent WKNC or students media show, guys.

Lise Nox  0:28
Hi, this is Lise Knox and you’re listening to Eye on the Triangle. With the rising people being vaccinated against COVID-19 in North Carolina as of July 2021. More and more local venues are hosting shows again. In this episode, I had a conversation with Daniel Correa, the lead singer of Miami based band The Collective Bus was going to play a show at the Pour house Music Hall in July 2021. The band is going on a small tour around North Carolina right now. And I was super excited to be able to interview someone from Ben at this time, as things are progressively going back to be more stable for the music industry. We talked about the feeling of getting back on stage after months without any live shows his relationship to his audience, the pressure of social media, the revival of pop, punk, and many other things. I hope you enjoy the episode.

Lise Nox  1:18
My first question is pretty obvious. But how are you feeling about getting back on stage

Daniel Correa  1:22
it does feel like it does feel good to finally propel ourselves back into the new normal. I feel a bit nervous wrapped up in excitement I try to not set any expectations for anything because I’ve philosophically I feel like that’s setting yourself up for disappointment. So for anything, I’m just like, it will be a show. That’s my response when any when anybody tells me like, Oh, I’m excited for it, it’s gonna be great. It’s gonna be fantastic. I’m just like, it’s going to be a show. Yeah, it’ll be an experience. Because I feel meaning in and of itself is retroactive, we we decide that afterward, after we’ve experienced the thing that may be bad or good, or whatever it’s on. I’m actually doing a gig tonight, there’ll be my first gig in since March of 2020.

Lise Nox  2:10
Good thing that you’re not putting too much pressure on yourself, even after a year and a half of not performing like it’s a good way to look at it. Wait, no, sorry, march of march of 2021. Oh, sorry. Okay, so you played recently about not that bad? Did you feel more stressed out at the time? Or were you like, you know, just feeling the same? Like, oh, it’s just a show, like, I just had more time to rehearse or

Daniel Correa  2:31
Yeah, it was it was just a show, we had been doing live streams in the interim, it was like this is a bar gig chance to stretch our legs and do some stuff that I had, obviously, so a lot of stuff happened in the world, especially close to home and in the political sphere, the capital rights specifically I was deeply affected by and that sort of accelerated my mindset to be I was going to start with pop album then like an arena rock then then go into punk and, and because of the the political state of the world had accelerated so fast, because COVID I was just like, my, I need to use my voice in some way. I need to use my privilege to the fullest extent that I can and just exercise my voice at every opportunity. So that’s what I did at this bar gig. And when I went on a little rant towards the people who’s from the Capitol riot, and I’m not we can’t play that. I got I got that it’s fine. We only played there like once a year even even if there was a COVID or anything. So not not a loss. You just like made your point and then left forever. I’m sorry, buddy. We’re not we’re not for you. I’m not I don’t care. I don’t care to play Hey,

Lise Nox  3:52
you will have so many more opportunities and then you’re going on tour right

Daniel Correa  3:55
now. And yeah, we’re doing that’s the whole reason for the interview that we’re doing a little micro tour in North Carolina playing at 1/58 on Main during the food truck festival then doing playing a bus Viking and Concord and then finally at the poorhouse co headlining with former guitarist, but a longtime friend, always a friend, Ben Ben Youngblood we actually listened to your show all the time. Big fan. That’s so cool. Yeah, it’d be great for you guys to have them on. Yeah.

Lise Nox  4:28
Have you ever been to the poorhouse before like have you ever played in North Carolina or

Daniel Correa  4:32
the only time we’ve played in North Carolina is in just in a bowling alley? retrofitted part of it to have a like sort of dance floor.

Lise Nox  4:44
Okay,

Daniel Correa  4:44
the my experience in playing in North Carolina is there a few times and then another bar?

Lise Nox  4:49
Yeah, I was gonna say it’s only playing an actual venue with like, you know, a crowd of people and like, you know, the place is actually made for shows. It’s not just a little thing. On this side, it’s like the host shows all the time and it’s going to be like a full on like high quality experience for everyone.

Daniel Correa  5:06
My mindset in regards to performance is you give you give 100% even when it’s not needed, especially when it’s not needed. I think of mature endo, the punk band Stalin in Japan, he there’s a video of him and his band playing for a moaning morning show in front of a bunch of Japanese housewives. Totally not their audience, but he’s just giving it his all he you know, he goes on the floor, he’s like, kind of doing a squeal, kind of like running around. And then the the clip ends with him diving into the audience. And that’s the energy that I that I tried to embody his and Angela Cujo, who once you get out here, you check your ego at the door.

Lise Nox  5:45
Yeah, and matter the audience or the place your way out, you like give you 100%

Daniel Correa  5:50
just do what you came to do exactly. The audience and itself doesn’t I don’t care if they’re there, I don’t care if they’re not there. If I can just curate a good time. That is what matters. Even even if there’s no audience, you know, they’re still there still could be there. So as the owner, there’s still the staff, if I could still curate a good time, there’s still the band part of my job is to be able to curate a good time for them so that way they want to stay involved and keep keep riding riding the bus as it were, that’s important to me, not just from an employment coworker perspective, but also just like as friends as people.

Lise Nox  6:28
Yeah, that makes sense. I guess you’re any way your way of performing is going to change going forward, like after the pandemic, and all of that like is your adult looking at you instruments are going to play on stage or something new. You want to try that you didn’t used to do before the pandemic? Oh, for sure. The

Daniel Correa  6:45
biggest change is one, the music itself a lot of whatever recently is a byproduct of the pandemic and is going to take a more political subversive edge take into the natural extreme of some of my early work, like don’t stop and fold it back, or the that certainly had political themes, but it was definitely subtext, it was definitely the secondary layer. This is going to operate in the primary primary layer is going to be more aggressive.

Lise Nox  7:14
Do you think in terms of genre, even if you don’t stick to a specific genre, but in terms of genre? Does that mean you’re going to be playing like punk music? Or is it just in the lyrics per se?

Daniel Correa  7:23
More on the punk end? Yes. 100% of them. Yeah. And then we’re starting to write stuff as a band for really the first time with Linkous between the main three of us David Aldo, and I and we all collectively have a similar taste towards math rock progressive rock, and so we’re writing stuff akin to that this this will all slowly make its way into our show. But for right now, you’re gonna see little bubbles of it, especially at the poorhouse show.

Lise Nox  7:53
Are you going to stuff at the shows are going to play in North Carolina? Like stuff you haven’t released yet? Yes, yeah, cuz I was going to say when I looked you up on Spotify, I mean, the collective buss and then you on your own, I listened to you like the latest single you’ve released with your band. So take time, and was more of a like soft Ed rock ballad kind of thing. So you guys were like, gonna take the leap of faith, hoping your audience is like going to get on board with like, more aggressive stuff right away. Because I mean, that sounds super cool, as far as I’m concerned. But it’s like, in terms of your discography on Spotify, like it’s gonna go from like, soft India until like, straight up, punk.

Daniel Correa  8:30
Yeah, well, here from my perspective, we’re not going to do it immediately. And we have stuff that’s just kind of all over the place, you did the burning down a house cover, that’s kind of like all funk. And then we did a jigsaw falling to place by Radiohead definitely rock left to center, the transformation depends on multiple factors that are up in the air, it’s fighting between the artist and then the brand. And you don’t want to alienate people check out the gate, but it’s also on this on the same wavelength, like Who are these people, because of COVID, we’re kind of starting from the bottom, we don’t have a fan base to begin with. So it’s whatever we want. And that’s kind of why I’m doing it. I want to cultivate an atmosphere for everybody to enjoy for everybody to feel safe to resonate with to have an outlet for the anger that I’m feeling or to feel welcomed, and to know that we don’t tolerate any sort of bigotry in this band.

Lise Nox  9:23
But yeah, it’s like the perks of being a relatively small band is that you don’t really have huge expectations from your fan base. If you want to switch to punk, let’s say tomorrow really play a completely new set of songs. I don’t think people are going to care that much. And I think they’re just going to enjoy your night just like they would have if you had played any other kind of music. The only difference is that you get to play the music first of all that you like playing. And second of all, you get to write songs that are more aligned with where you are at right now. You know, just like you were saying about your anger and the political issues you want to tackle and I just think it’s really great like you get to write about Anything you want and you don’t have to fear people not being on board or leaving your fan base or anything like that because you’re still growing

Daniel Correa  10:08
precisely that Thank you. Yeah the only the only thing we’re concerned is repeats of what happened at the guitar where we we got banned for being overtly political. So again, this is a safe space this is a place for LGBT people of color, etc um

Lise Nox  10:24
yeah it’s a really positive message like just like is it like a safe space for everyone involved? Like Have you ever like done a full like US tour like all around the US

Daniel Correa  10:33
before? Yes, so before this before COVID only stuff we were we support act for Anna nolleke and john Wait, which were one was a new wave act back in the 80s john and and the other had a big hit in the 2000s breathe and then did like small tours. And regardless, we we did do we did see a lot of the US played a lot of these reputable places like Iron Horse music call Rams had em city winery circuit a bunch of bunch of other places. And that was a great experience that was that was pre pre all this and obviously we were playing a lot of the pop stuff and that’s how we were able to get get that at all.

Lise Nox  11:22
Like what was your favorite show you’ve played up until now? Like Did you have like a specific venue or band you’ve played with or I don’t know, just something you remember in a positive manner.

Daniel Correa  11:33
You know, there’s this this one time we’re playing in Bay City, Michigan, and we as probably one of our best shows you got a standing ovation or walking outside just like doing anything well like john has it was a john lake show while john doing his we’ve seen like 100 times so like you’re just hanging out and a lot of these people were like coming in and out to do their smoke breaks smoking is pretty popular in that area. apparently one of the one of the guys comes out to me is like hey drunk is all hell and like Hey, can I can I buy you a drink? And I was like, sorry sir. I don’t drink I’m like and he’s like, how about us? Nope, um, like maybe I’ll see see you around sir. And he continues on his way I think nothing of the interaction. Fast forward to like probably 2030 minutes later I’m hanging with the band band outside and some people come to talk to us and then like Rob doll that was really good. What’s your backstory? Where are you guys from the typical like know about you three questions etc with a What instruments do you play and the same guy passes by a one hands my basis like $50 like here we go I was gonna spend it on gambling but this is this is better yeah honestly it’s it’s kind of it’s kind of funny because my favorite place on the entire tour is is the one that we never did shows in Pittsburgh Yeah, why didn’t you perform we just didn’t have shows there Oh,

Lise Nox  12:55
he’s just like when you go to Pittsburgh for

Daniel Correa  12:57
it was just the stop along the way that we were able to stay it’s a few days before the next run and they just got great food I like the I like the scenery I like the mix of industrial era blended with forests. It’s not it’s not as Brian ease people make it out to be I mean, not as grimy is like any other city like like New York or New Jersey or any anywhere else like or Baltimore and then like exploiting like that South End trip so many great stores. We found like a guitar shop with Pittsburgh guitars, wear a tie back to Ben Youngblood who were co headlining in and tour of us who was with us on that tour, got his acoustic guitar, his thing is a tailor for pretty pretty cheap he traded his guitar right then the guitar that he was using before right then in there for that one, and he’s kept with it, and we re revisit it at that place and they know us. Oh, we also wrote the song on the collective bus take time in there. So you’re definitely getting inspired by the city. I just just serendipity I guess.

Lise Nox  14:04
Cool Yeah, I mean, that could be like a long term goal of yours to play there. If you guys are going on tour that means like venues wants you there they’re ready to have this kind of music to be played in their place. So yeah,

Daniel Correa  14:15
for sure. Like the way I go about is like see like, oh, here’s the city I want to play let me do some research takes it takes a few hours. I go through every possible venue as journal lotto results of seeing who’s survived post COVID and who hasn’t. And a lot of that has to do with laws were put in place on on the whether those were self imposed, or whether those were put in by the government like the contrast between a place like Miami versus Boston, Miami, that was all pretty much self imposed a lot of the bigger vein of the kind of holding on a thread but they they still exist in some fashion. While a lot of the pop up places in Boston have closed down because there was a guy From an ordinance to, to not have those like reasonably because you can’t have people gathering

Lise Nox  15:06
some places we’re lucky enough to, at some point during the pandemic get money from the government even though you know, it wasn’t for everyone,

Daniel Correa  15:14
it’s depending on whether they had money saved up prior. So like a historic venue like pumpkin biscuit where I’m playing tonight or Churchill’s, they’ve had money on the back end to be able to prepare for something like this. But something like a pop up in Boston, which are rather frequent because Boston has a far more diverse in in the opportunities of venues like in Florida, everything’s a lot more commercial like you would in Boston, Boston, you can go see free jazz avant garde stuff pretty readily comparatively, what happened because of that government ordinance where you had a lot of these places that didn’t have anything that supplanted like a like a restaurant or a bar, or that backend income? They just are we’re just purely relying on volunteers. Do you think there’s any way at some point in the future where they’re going to be able to open back up again or like the similar kind of concept that’s that’s definitely what’s what’s going to happen it’s either they are going to come back or somebody else is going to fill in that spot here I’ll use Miami’s example so Miami Are you familiar with so far sounds on no so so far sounds is a worldwide for profit initiative where they do how shows us how shows is that because it could be a workspace a theater excetera for these kind of small and acoustic shows supporting small artists and fostering ecosystem I volunteer for the so far Miami for like two years before all this stuff hit the fan basically because of COVID so far, so so far, Miami chapter that was trying to get off the ground died flatline. Now that we’re getting back to this new normal in my research, I found a company called Nomad or nomadic I don’t know how they pronounce it. And they’re basically doing exactly what so far is doing for the local Miami area. Yeah, they’re doing so far, but it’s on a small end, they do like once a month from what I hear. And they started in like in South America, and they’re only in three cities compared to so far as like 440 cities. But yeah, in this current market, where people are dying for for live, and people are literally time people are starving for live music, someone is going to fill in that need because that’s kind of how capitalism works. For better or worse, it rides off of pure efficiency, which is kind of why it hit hit America so hard, because it because it forced United States to face realities about the nature of a capitalist environment that were really unsustainable to human living.

Lise Nox  17:53
I’ve heard the phrase capitalism breeds innovation, which when you look at it in details is not necessarily true for most industries. But what you were saying about like, how people are starving for like music, and so far sound or no made or no money, however they’re pronounced, what they’re doing is like bringing a new aspect to the music industry. And since people are going to be wanting to go to way more shows than ever before, this kind of innovation sounds pretty cool to me,

Daniel Correa  18:19
you know, whoever is like, Hey, I have the space. Do you want to host the show here? I love the cost concept. I volunteer I volunteered for so far for two years. And I love whatever I can can to foster an ecosystem for art one of my dreams is actually being able to move out on my parents house and being able to like run a little venue and like a basement somewhere that would be that’d be cool as hell but I wouldn’t necessarily call what nomadic or so far doing as innovative but rather profiteering off of stuff that has already existed like no money is just copying so far so far has been doing had been doing it for like 15 years at this point.

Lise Nox  19:02
It’s good to see that the music industry is expanding that way because if there’s like a second version kind of so far, that means they know there’s a market for it that people like it so there is you know going to be more opportunities and yeah, that’s sounds pretty cool. If you watched cuz it was released recently on Netflix inside Bible Burnham. It’s okay. Oh my god. You have Yes, cuz Oh my God, I watched it like two days ago. And when I you know what I realized I was going to be interviewing someone from a band. So if you’re someone who’s been playing music for quite some time, and someone who had to go through the pandemic as an artist, I instantly like made the connection. I was like, Oh my God, because for people listening. Bo Burnham is a comedian who usually does comedy in the form of music. He writes and records his own songs. He usually plays them live, he actually quit. I think a few years ago, he stopped doing comedy on stage because he was having severe panic attacks. And he like the year he wanted to get back on stage, which was 2020, the pandemic hit, and he had to write record and just do you know, everything musically speaking from the inside of his own house, hence the title inside by Bo Burnham. And at some point during the show, keep pretends that there’s a live audience inside his house, like he plays little audio clips where you can hear people cheering or people clapping or laughing or whatever. And I was like, that is the saddest thing I’ve seen all year of like, you know, you can tell as an artist and as someone who plays usually plays live music, he’s so lonely inside his house, and he has to pretend that there’s a like an audience cheering him on like, it’s just have you experienced this kind of willingness during the pandemic where you would just wished there was like an audience cheering for you? Or were you not really affected by that?

Daniel Correa  20:53
I don’t necessarily need an audience my my concerns and a lot of actually a lot of the musicians around me were kind of focused monetarily

Lise Nox  21:04
that was more in terms of like how you were going to survive as a band as a muse. Yeah,

Daniel Correa  21:08
like that’s, that’s why a lot of bands have fell apart or couldn’t keep together turning in him itself requires like a huge front end monetarily speaking to do this our our goal realistically for the rest of this year is to try to break even on all the shows that we’re doing. If you can’t retain that frequency, then you’re you’re just losing money. A lot of people quit a lot of people find jobs like I had to find I’d find my first real job after doing mainly just volunteer work and then the touring nationally all my band had to get real money on my drummer works at a pet store I had I’m a cashier at a Whole Foods my basis is doing graphic design. My former guitars, Ben You know, he he left because of those monetary reasons. A lot of the anxiety we felt was because of like, oh man, how are we going to support ourselves in the coming future for my base bases? Like how are we going to how am I going what how are we going to support our family going to get any independence from my family being inside with another thing is hell is other people things things can get really toxic, especially with people who are opposite politically from you. I’m so glad my my dad and I have been able to hash things out and and be able to have actual conversations again as human beings and not condescending to one another or not being vitriolic, but it was vitriolic at one point my sister and I we were vitriolic to each other on point

Lise Nox  22:43
how do you cope when you’re trying to survive financially and not argue with your with your family every single day and also maybe try to make some music for when venues are going to reopen again, reopen again, like how are you able to like balance everything out?

Daniel Correa  22:57
that’s a that’s a great question, which I think there’s a lot of anxieties about inside that I felt were like lead close to home, like what Bo was saying about I wouldn’t have been able to watch that special like six months ago with stuff like the D realization, whether the lot the audience is laughing with you, or at you wanting to have control of your perception and always dealing with that element of control because we’re in the middle of being pitched to labels but then we were in and so being that level of dependency kind of drove me crazy and on the other content generation the his whole his whole statement when he’s like talking during his quote unquote stand up set and being like the outside world is like a coal mine a sort of thing that you have to engage in in order to make content for the very real and valuable digital space. Yeah, that really got under my skin because social media has really tore me down as I tried to make content trying to push myself in dealing with levels of body dysmorphia dealing with the perception of how others perceive me whether they’re laughing at me or laughing with me goes back to that control how to deal with all that stuff. I basically had to mentally and physically transform myself my transformation started after the capital riots I’d begun meditation and then started to change my relationship to social media as well and engaging with it. When I’m ready to engage with it I take breaks every now and then I recently and I think my friend Mel Mel bright for this who really showed me like the style of content that she’s making. I kind of I fell in love with and I’m directly inspired by I was like you could make kind of short songs that could be about anything you want that could voice your frustrations and people will resonate with that rather strongly. I started doing that I started doing these little micro songs on Tick Tock the you know deal with a song about how I almost died because my mom The gas stove on or like, Is it a real story? Yeah, that’s that actually is crazy. Um, because the week the week before that happened, I was just I was really in a stressful state I was talking to my therapist, my therapist was like, you know, you need to refocus and value the relationships you have and like live in the present moment because focusing on a future that hasn’t happened is not going to bring any resolution to you because there is no future. So when that when that happened, I really kind of clarified to me how the fragility Oh, even more so the fragility of life. It was a night we had dinner, I went to bed like normal, and then I woke up to see my friend, my old friend Paul, who’s a firefighter. With my my mom, I’d like a normal morning. I’m like, What the heck is Paul doing here? What a What a weird. I haven’t seen him a long time. I might as well see what’s up. And then I find out she left the gas stove on and she had been staying up all night because she was so worried like that something might might happen or like she didn’t know what to do. So then she called Paul just make sure that everything was all right. Unfortunately, everything was

Lise Nox  26:08
really because you’re gonna tell me that your entire house burned. I mean, I could have died in my sleep. So the reason you were telling me this story is because you’ve been trying to write like short songs for tik tok? Are you trying to use the app just like every other artist is trying to use it as a marketing tool for your music? Or are you just like going about it? I

Daniel Correa  26:29
was like, Oh, it’s fine. Like it just you know, passes the time. Before I answer that question of going out the tail and that that divergent story that I went, Oh, my mom, my mom is a really good mom. She’s one of the sweetest people in the world. And that smallness. That mistake is not reflective.

Lise Nox  26:46
Yeah.

Daniel Correa  26:48
That’s not that’s not for the treat. That’s for those that’s for those listening. Because when I did post, that that song people were very critical. My mom was like, nope, but anyway, to answer your question, half, half and half it’s definitely a way to promote myself. It’s a mean, sir, to flex myself artistically. And if I blow up, I blow up. Oh, yeah, one of those things that definitely that is encapsulated in the Bo Burnham special that I’ve felt is the passage of time and the feeling that your glory days are over that the success the time for success has escaped you. Like he’s done with like turning 30 as I’ve watched several my friends like Calico or kid sister, my friend, Mel, like just blow up in popularity, I am happy for them. But it’s also like the back of my head, little voice like out like they’re doing better than you. They’re working hard. And you’re not if there’s a place for them, they’re not a place for you. It’s all like, when is it my time is like if there? Is there even a time do you even belong? Because you get to the conclusion is like Why? Why do you not have that access? It’s because you’re not them. And you can never be them

Lise Nox  27:57
the creative process of like, not knowing what you’re supposed to be doing to be more popular. If people like figured something out that you don’t know, like a secret solution to like making better music or being more famous, it’s like, well, it’s easy to fall into this competition.

Daniel Correa  28:13
Well, it’s not even like just that, like there’s this there’s some secret sauce and maybe there is well, it’s also like I it feeds back to the body dysmorphia thing where it’s like, I am not viewtiful I don’t fit into the current normative, westernized standard for beauty. So like you could be you could be too fat, you could be to scale. And I think getting that dose of self awareness and just checking like, Oh, this is where my body’s at. This is where I need to be in order to get better in order to be healthy or to meet some sort of arbitrary standard in order to get into the pearly gates of acceptance but for my own internal mechanisms, so I can live longer live better and and happier in order to sustain the relationships with those around me because like your body is also a reflection of your mind they’re the same thing Do you think there’s going to be a way for you to find a balance between like or like to apply this mindset that you have for your music to apply to yourself? Because if you’re able to be so like laid back and chill about like, Oh, it’s not the audience that

Lise Nox  29:17
matters is like what I do as a person like do you think there’s going to be a way for you eventually to like be able to apply that mindset or is it more complex than

Daniel Correa  29:25
that? That’s definitely what I’m that’s another good question. I that’s definitely what I’m trying to do well there where I’m trying to apply no expectations to anything like to the extra musical stuff and even even to work. I know at the end of the day, I might get a write up it makes no difference to me. It is it is what it is. As long as there are the sunshine people in my life. I think I’ll be good.

Lise Nox  29:53
If your like long term dream or goal is to open some kind of venue or some kind of project or in music. Or keep on touring and eventually maybe tour ad or like play at bigger venues, like, you’re going to have to find a way to use social media in a way that feels healthy. Because you know, it’s kind of weird to say but social media doesn’t seem like it’s going anywhere. And it’s a growing marketing tool. And so if you’re struggling with it, which is so normal for a lot of people, but if you’re struggling to like put yourself out there and create content like in the long run, you’re probably gonna run out of marketing tools like you’re gonna have to you know, always go back to using social media in some way like it’s like you’re not gonna have a choice so I really hope you are able to get that support system and I really hope you’re able to you know, get better and apply the mindset you already have within you to like those other parts of your life to like just make your dreams come true. It sounds super cliche, but like you have it in you and it just takes the right people supporting you and the right mindset.

Daniel Correa  30:52
Yeah, things are things are getting better. I’m I’m my I mean, my my mood like again, I mentally and physically transformed myself and my mood has definitely gotten better. I don’t again, like meditation has helped so much in feeding about fighting intrusive thoughts, and I have them less and less, I’m on the spectrum. So I fall I tend to have very repetitive behaviors that just like sort of trying to filter them out better through through meditative practice has has helped me a lot in my day to day,

Lise Nox  31:22
I just have two last questions I want to ask you and then you’re pretty good. You have to be somewhere I don’t know for rehearsal or anything like that. First question I wanted to ask was, what advice would you give to someone trying to start a career in the music industry right now like someone trying to make music on their own in their bedroom or someone forming a band or you know,

Daniel Correa  31:42
my first thought is, depending on what you want to want to do, don’t do a music degree, find something that has applicability to the current job market, because that’s going to help you with your music career, as well as outside of music, career, anything, anything you can learn as a musician is already available online. You don’t need to pay the exorbitant fee unless you’re getting a salt scholarship or something go for it, but like you don’t need to pay so much money to learn stuff that is so free and like which ties back to my next piece, which is collaborate network. The you know, I my success, I think is very much tied to putting myself with people who are far more capable, far smarter than I am. I bet you know, I’m I’m Adam Sandler, being myself if, if that makes sense, you don’t, you don’t need to, you don’t need to shoulder everything yourself. Obviously, the more you can learn, the better, the better. The more diversified your your skill set is, the better your chances you have in in the job market, especially now where you are essentially a content creator and the more different kinds of content you create and the quality of content that you create, the better your chances are, you don’t have to do do it all by yourself, you can find that basis find that guitarist find that that person that you want to collaborate and synergize with that’s going to lead you down down a new rabbit hole creatively or even on an extra extra musical level. You know, that’s a that’s a really that’s a relationship that could not be forged otherwise.

Lise Nox  33:17
So last question I wanted to ask is I found a playlist on your Spotify account so the collective bus, Spotify account, and I think it was like music wrong, like your music from your friends from the music industry? Sorry. And the question is, if you had to make a playlist of songs or artists or like albums you’ve been listening to a lot recently, like I don’t know, just stuff you’re listening to right now. Like why would you put in the playlist? The search is over by Ben Youngblood another

Daniel Correa  33:47
Ben young plug Leon the harvests, covet the Tony Danza tap dance extravaganza that’s probably danza for is probably one of my favorite albums definitely my favorite metal album of all time. The needle sister Riga he’s been a longtime influence for me like even from like his pop Potter puppet doll days and he’s

Lise Nox  34:09
there like a song or an artist that you’ve discovered during the pandemic while browsing like Spotify or the internet or

Daniel Correa  34:15
Yeah, I think getting into a lot of just like this this new wave of of like pop punk or in Scott like these bands have always existed, but they’re just releasing it. They’ve just decided to release music within the 20 2021. So like bad, bad operation. They just released a Mr. Scott album last last year, and it’s probably one of the best scar records I’ve ever listened to. So good. The ob gmms Mimi at the altar. They just got signed to feel by Rahman I love them. I can’t believe they’re not opening for paramour. That’s, that’s crazy to think that. Yeah, they’re opening for like, all time low or something like that. Which I mean, that’s so amazing. But like, I didn’t see that coming. Because it’s

Lise Nox  34:59
not exactly Like the same extension or are you going to like see any shows yourself like the bands you’re planning on seeing?

Daniel Correa  35:07
I haven’t really thought about it before the pandemic I was gonna see Kero Kero bonito but then their shows got the lid so maybe maybe see care care of Benito planning on coming to Miami but knows I’m kind of I’m getting my own shows good right now before I see anybody else is what do you what do you like to listen to? Oh, I

Lise Nox  35:26
listen to a lot of things. I can listen to pop punk or plus hardcore, but it can also listen to like, indie stuff, indie music, I listened to classical like, just I don’t know. But right now, I’ve been listening to a lot of pop punk music because I really I’m trying to like get back in the mood of like listening to my favorite bands from what I used to be like, you know, emo kid in middle school or whatever. And so since I’m planning on seeing maybe I haven’t gotten my tickets yet, but maybe seeing the story so far movements grayscale at the sad summer fast, which is happening this summer. So I’ve been listening to a lot of pop punk

Daniel Correa  36:01
recently. We’re in that we’re in that revival with like, with a transparent soul by Willow. Oh, yeah, it’s

Lise Nox  36:08
so good. Because I feel like Travis Barker also he’s just doing so many collaborations with literally anyone and yeah, any product which is so cool, because the final product is always really nice to listen to like I just covered a song recently. I think it was released in 2019. But I might be wrong. I found out he made an EP with those suicide boys, which is definitely not a kind of music I listened to usually but the drums on the songs they did together and we’ll say whoa, that slaps It’s so good. It’s

Daniel Correa  36:38
incredible. Like he’s kind of fielding the whole revival right now. I mean, as far as the mainstream line goes, Yeah,

Lise Nox  36:45
I think I’m done with my questions. Is there anything else you’d like to add? Or like tell the audience before they come see you at the poorhouse or I don’t know just anything else you’d like to say be happy, be safe.

Daniel Correa  36:58
Listen to my band, I guess if you want to, but look, listen to Ben Youngblood the search is over.

Lise Nox  37:10
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Eye on the Triangle. This was Daniel Correa from the Collective Bus has been is playing at the Pour House Music Hall in July 2021. And they’re going on a small tour around North Carolina as COVID slowly but surely makes its way out. Check out our music on Spotify, the collective bus. I hope you enjoyed the episode and I guess I’ll see you around. Take care.

You’ll Never Believe Me But… is a lighthearted storytelling podcast about what’s real, what’s fake, and what’s funny. Guests come on and tell two stories, one real one fake, and laugh and joke about it with host Cutter as they enjoy storytelling while he tries to figure out which story is the real one. 

 

Elizabeth Esser interviews Santisha Walker, a registered nurse, author, entrepreneur and speaker based in Durham. They discuss her fitness apparel and wellness brand, The I AM Experience.

FULL TRANSCRIPT OF EPISODE
Provided by Otter.ai

Eoin Trainor  0:00  
The views and opinions expressed in Eye on the Triangle do not represent WKNC or student media.

Eoin Trainor  0:45  
Good evening Raleigh and welcome to this week’s Eye on the Triangle an NC State student produced new show on WKNC 88.1 FM HD one Raleigh, I am Eoin Trainor. On tonight’s episode, Elizabeth Esser interviews Santisha Walker, a registered nurse, entrepreneur, author and speaker based in Durham they talk about her fitness apparel and wellness brand, the I am experience. But first you have some stories from the North Carolina News Service enjoy.

Nadia Ramlagan  1:12  
A state environmental committee is considering a proposal to set a process in motion to reduce carbon emissions from power plants. It involves North Carolina joining the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative or “RGGI,” a collaborative effort to shrink emissions by a group of East Coast states. RGGI requires companies to purchase an allowance for each ton of carbon-dioxide pollution they produce. The petition now heads to a second commission for a vote. Joel Porter with Clean Air Carolina says environmental groups are pleased the state is taking the impact of carbon pollution seriously.

Joel Porter  1:44  
So that was a big step forward for us on a long journey through the regulatory process, but we are encouraged that they approve of our petition and regulating greenhouse gases in North Carolina.

Nadia Ramlagan  1:57  
He says states already part of RGGI have seen carbon-dioxide emissions from power plants drop 47-percent over the last decade. With that dip in fossil-fuel generation came cleaner air, fewer hospital visits, and fewer lost work or school days from asthma and other respiratory illnesses. But an energy bill being debated by state lawmakers could complicate the effort to join RGGI. Porter says House Bill 951 would enshrine natural gas and fossil-fuel use in the state for the next decade, and limit the amount of renewable energy that can be used.

Joel Porter  2:30  
All and all, we’re glad that we’re supporting a petition to get the state in RGGI, because this bill closes the state’s energy market to clean energy.

Nadia Ramlagan  2:41  
Derb Carter with the Southern Environmental Law Center says joining RGGI would put North Carolina on a path to reduce carbon emissions from 2005 levels by 70-percent before 2030, and become carbon neutral by 2050.

Derb Carter  2:55  
Which generally aligns with what the scientists are telling us we really need to do to avoid the worst impacts of climate change.

Nadia Ramlagan  3:04  
Carter notes North Carolinians already feel the effects of climate change from extreme weather. He says unless the course is shifted, the state’s residents and economy will see more consequences. For North Carolina News Service, I’m Nadia Ramlagan.

Nadia Ramlagan  3:23  
New survey data offer a clear picture of how North Carolina kids and families are faring, both before and after the pandemic. The Tarheel State ranks 34th in the nation for overall child well-being in the 2021 Kids Count Data Book from the Annie E. Casey Foundation. Vikki Crouse with N-C Child says before the pandemic, one in five kids lived in households with incomes below the poverty line. And then, massive job losses meant thousands of parents suddenly had no or reduced income and few options for child care.

Vikki Crouse  3:53  
So we know that the pandemic took a toll on everyone, but especially parents and caregivers.

Nadia Ramlagan  3:59  
According to the report, the percentage of adults in households with kids experiencing symptoms of depression rose from 19-percent last year, to 22-percent in March of this year.

The data also reveal in 2020, 22-percent of households with children experienced housing insecurity, reporting “little or no confidence” in their ability to pay their next rent or mortgage payment. In March 2021, that figure has dipped to 17-percent. However, Crouse says affordable housing continues to be a pressing issue.

Vikki Crouse  4:29  
And now he’s really constrained because certainly families and kids don’t fare well if they don’t have a stable place to live.

Nadia Ramlagan  4:36  
But she notes the expanded Child Tax Credit will likely lift more than 140-thousand North Carolina children out of poverty.

 Leslie Boissiere with the Casey Foundation explains both state and federal Child Tax Credit programs are critical to eliminating structural inequities in the tax code.

Leslie Boissiere  4:53  
We are excited and grateful that lawmakers passed the expansion, and we’re calling on them to make that expansion permanent. We’d like to ensure that we don’t have the largest-ever one-year reduction in the number of children who live in poverty, followed immediately by the largest-ever one-year increase.

Nadia Ramlagan  5:10  
She adds more than half of Black children have historically been ineligible for the full Child Tax Credit because their household incomes are too low, compared with 25-percent of white children. For North Carolina News Service, I’m Nadia Ramlagan.

Lily Bohlke  5:30  
Groups advocating for clean energy say Governor Roy Cooper’s recent commitment to expanding North Carolina’s offshore wind capacity will bring economic benefits to the state. North Carolina has among the highest offshore wind-energy potential in the nation, with its long coastline and shallow outer-continental shelf. Jaime Simmons, with the Southeastern Wind Coalition, says in addition to being a carbon-free source of power, expanding offshore wind could create tens of thousands of new jobs.

Jamie Simmons  6:00  
Some of these major location decisions are being driven in large part by the states or regions with anticipated projects. So these development goals set by Gov. Cooper make a much stronger case for these manufacturers to locate and invest in North Carolina.

Lily Bohlke  6:16  
North Carolina is facing a 10-year moratorium on all offshore energy leasing starting in July of 2022. Simmons says pending legislation would exempt offshore wind from the ban. In the meantime, she says there’s work to do to get existing wind-energy areas ready for leasing – Wilmington East and West in the southern part of the state – and prepare for development of new projects to start immediately when the moratorium ends.

Simmons says offshore wind will be an essential part of the move toward a carbon-free grid – and that it marries well with solar energy. When solar starts to produce less in the day, around early evening, offshore wind usually is blowing the strongest. She adds that the high generation capacity of individual offshore wind projects is key.

Jamie Simmons  7:04  
You’re really talking about rethinking what baseload power means. Offshore wind is really the only renewable energy that could replace the capacity from a coal facility or natural-gas facility.

Lily Bohlke  7:19  
Cooper’s proclamation outlines targets for offshore wind energy of 28-hundred megawatts by 2030 and 8-thousand megawatts by 2040. His administration notes 8-thousand megawatts could power more than 2-million homes. The order also aligns with the state’s clean-energy plan signed in 2018, which aims to reduce power-sector greenhouse gases 70-percent by 2030 and to achieve carbon neutrality by 2050. For North Carolina News Service, I’m Lily Bohlke, reporting.

Elizabeth Esser  7:54  
I’m Elizabeth Esser with WKNC 88.1 Eye on the Triangle. Joining us today is Santisha Walker, a certified nurse, entrepreneur, speaker and author based in Durham, North Carolina. We discussed her fitness apparel and wellness brand, the I Am experience. Santisha, thank you so much for joining us on Eye on the Triangle. 

Santisha Walker  8:13  
You’re welcome. Thank you for having me, Elizabeth. I’m excited to be here.

Elizabeth Esser  8:18  
So you wear many hats. You’re a certified nurse and entrepreneur an author, speaker. Would you mind telling our listeners a bit about your professional background and how you got to where you are today? 

Santisha Walker  8:29  
Sure. So yes, I am a registered nurse. I’ve been a nurse for seven years, I actually received my nursing degree from Wake Technical Community College here in Raleigh. And then I went on to get my master’s in nursing from Gardner Webb University. And so as far as my nursing background, I have worked at Wake med, I was a cardiac nurse on intermediate step down unit, I worked at a private practice in Raleigh for neurology, I’ve done homecare, supervisory visits, I’ve worked in assisted living, long term care and rehab. So I have a really broad knowledge of nursing. And as you know, I’m not your typical traditional conventional nurse, I believe in stepping outside of the box and using my nursing knowledge to help others outside of the bedside setting. I’m also a wellness coach. And so I thought it would be great to pair wellness knowledge with my nursing health care information that I have and then make you know the best of that and be able to help others outside of that setting. I am here from the Raleigh Durham area and I reside here at RTP. And so I try to reach out to the community and partner with others who are making a difference in the lives of others as well in the healthcare wellness setting. So I have a broad range of knowledge. 

Elizabeth Esser  9:43  
So what is the I Am experience and and what inspired you to create it?

Santisha Walker  9:48  
Sure, so the I am experience. So my mission with that is to basically offer individuals a fitness and wellness experience that’s going to empower them to intentionally cultivate the best version of themselves and reflect it out to the world. And so my vision was to offer a fitness apparel from a quality brand that everyone can trust. And then also tag on to that wellness products that they can use while they are actually working on their physical body. And so where this idea came from, I actually came to me during the pandemic, right, everyone was home, we were all going through a lot. myself as a nurse, I was still actually helping in the bedside setting, doing what we call PRN, helping in different COVID units in the area. But when I was home, I actually decided to focus more on my actual fitness and physical fit as far as my physical body. And so I began working out more. Before the pandemic, I would go to the boxing gym and try to work on my body, but I got really lazy with it. So I decided to incorporate more physical activity for myself. But also I want it to center myself emotionally, spiritually and mentally, right. And so with every, at every news station, every time we turned around, there was something negative being mentioned or or new breaking news, I should say about Coronavirus, and about COVID and about the number of deaths and so it was taking a toll on everyone, including myself. And so what I wanted to do was become very still very centered. And so I begin positive self talk, I begin to incorporate heavily, I was doing it before, but I really want to focus on positive affirmations. And so during my workout sessions, which I would work out early in the morning, go ahead and get it done for the day, I began playing affirmations in the background. So while I was doing my HIIT Workout, I had affirmations going. And that really helped me during that vulnerable time when I was working out to center my mind and to speak to myself in my body. And I just took it from there. So I thought you know, what, if this is helping me Who else could this actually help? You know, because when we working out that’s a very, it’s empowering, but it’s also very vulnerable, right? Because you’re questioning yourself, can I do this, I have to reach this goal, I have to feel better. So you’re vulnerable, but you’re also empowering yourself to keep going and push past that threshold. And so that that’s when it came to me, you know, it would be really cool to you know, come up with an apparel that people could actually put on when they can actually when they see themselves in that apparel, they will be empowered, right. But then also add products or add something to that, that would allow them to continue with the empowerment, mind body, soul and spirit. And so that’s where it came from my husband’s nonprofit organization, Carolina united flag football club, they actually had access to Nike apparel, and so I tapped into his resource and I was able to get great you know, quality apparel and use you know, use the I Am brand to go ahead and put something great out there for individuals.

Elizabeth Esser  13:03  
And so I understand that the brand is not just a fitness apparel brand. What all does it offer?

Santisha Walker  13:10  
Yeah, great, great. Okay. So this is this is the fun part right because there are several fitness apparel you know, you can athleisure is everywhere. But the thing that says that I am experienced a part is we offer an I am fitness wellness kit, right so that I Am exclusive wellness kit is basically 10 subjects that those who purchase the apparel can choose from it’s complimentary. And so you choose one of those subjects with your apparel purchase. And I’m actually sending you information based on my nursing and wellness knowledge that will help you to incorporate that into your life. So there are daily practical guides, they’re invaluable resources that are reputable that you can you can believe and trust in, there’s evidence based information that’s provided on that particular topic. So each time you purchase an apparel, you can choose a new topic to go along with your apparel. So that I am exclusive wellness kit will be included with your package with your actual apparel that you receive at your doorstep. Okay, so another product that I included was the I Am energy workout mix. This was this was a really fun project. And again, like I mentioned before I was working out right but what I wanted to do was put I am affirmations on top of energizing beats So when we work out we want something that’s just going to keep us going and especially when we reach that peak, right, we have to push to that threshold. And so what I wanted to do was incorporate Im affirmations with energizing beats so that you can actually listen to it for while you’re working out. So it is a 30 minute audio. And so these are professionally engineered beats that are done by the professionals. I know nothing about studio work. So I reached out to Hatton Brandon CO and they were able to reach out to their resources their team and put together the I am energy work out there. And so again, that’s complimentary. It comes with your apparel, you can only get it once you purchase your apparel. But that’s actually to help your mind stay in that positive mindset while you’re working out. And I actually had some someone reach out to me and she said, You know what, I actually listened to it after I finished my workout. And so that you can carry it into your everyday activities. And the other, the other, this is not really a product. But the other thing that I offer is I am empowered private group. And so that is a private Facebook group, you have to have an entry code, you have to answer questions to be able to get in. But once you purchase your apparel, then you actually get access to that group to be held accountable, and to be empowered on a daily and weekly basis. And so it’s not just me posting information as a healthcare professional. But it’s those that are in the group, were asking questions, Hey, what are you guys doing about this? How are you guys being empowered this week? This is what I’m doing. Right. One of the things I posted yesterday was Hey, guys, like I had a little bit too much sugar last week, and, and I didn’t really take in as much water this week, I am, you know, being held accountable to drinking more water. And so they hold me accountable to that. So yeah, I wanted to definitely partner wellness products,

Elizabeth Esser  16:15  
and you have a background in healthcare and business. And you’ve been able to successfully merge these two passions in your career. Was creating a brand like the I am experience always a goal of yours? Or is that something that just happened along the way?

Santisha Walker  16:31  
Great question. So it happened along the way. You know, if you do a little bit of research and background on me, I am a true like, nurse entrepreneur, what we call nursepreneur. And so I consider myself a serial entrepreneur, because I love taking ideas, I love taking things and my creativities and bringing them to a full finished work and bringing them to fruition. And so no, I it’s so funny, I had never envisioned myself, even launching a fitness line, right. But I have a business degree. And I always tell this story. I have a business degree. And I concentrated in marketing. But I never envisioned that I would be an entrepreneur. And I know that’s like an oxymoron it’s contradictory. But when I went to college back in 2001, you know, I didn’t know what I wanted to do what to major is I said, Hey, if I get a business degree, I could always use it at some point in life. And then after graduating I in college, I kind of had an idea. I wanted to be a nurse, but I was close to graduating. So I graduated. But becoming a nurse, I didn’t become a nurse to even partner the two worlds. It wasn’t until later I realized, oh my god, I have all of this knowledge, I have a business degree. And my husband actually brought that idea of, you know, going into consulting and starting my own business. And so eventually I’m merged the two. So I did not set out to be a serial nursepreneur, I did not set out to launch, you know, a fitness line, I do believe in submitting my mind, my body and my will to the will of God, my Creator. And I do believe in allowing him to order my steps. And so throughout life, life is very secure. You know, very, you know, it’s a windy road. And so I just believe in just following him and doing what he’s telling me to do. And it’s been a success so far. Success, meaning I have empowered a lot of people along the way. That’s how I measure my level of success. So, you know, no, I didn’t set out to do it. But I did. I do believe in not being boxed in and just you know, submitting myself to God and letting him use me in that way.

Elizabeth Esser  18:38  
And as a registered nurse yourself, you have a specific passion of empowering nurses professionally and in life. How have nurses and other health care professionals responded to the I am experience?

Santisha Walker  18:51  
Yeah, so they responded great. I actually had a giveaway I launched actually the day like nurses week was my first inaugural launch of the brand. And so I had nurses like reach out to me that was actually a giveaway that I offered. And one of the one of the nurses won, but they’ve responded positively. I will say just in general, nurses are amazing. We’re the powerhouse of healthcare. And I’m happy to see that we are moving along and becoming used to nurses operating outside of that traditional setting. But it’s it is still a pool every once in a while to get nurses to see another nurse operating outside of just having all scrubs and starting IVs and running to codes. And so I have had a positive response. But I think as nurses hear more about this and realize, Hey, you know, this is something you guys can tap into as well. I think there will be even more a better response but so far it’s been it’s been good. I actually have a nurse who was a part of our inaugural launch. And so she has actually been putting it she’s a she’s an ER nurse at Wake med and she’s actually been she’s an ambassador. And she’s been putting helped me get the brand out to other nurses as well. 

Elizabeth Esser  20:05  
When is your next release?

Santisha Walker  20:07  
Yeah, so my next release is actually, this Friday, June the 25th. I’m not sure when this will air, but it is June the 25th. And so I release the fourth Friday of every month. And so if you missed the first release, or the most previous release, you can also always subscribe and then you’ll get a heads up with that next release is coming. So the 25th of June is my next release. And the releases are available only for one week. And so you have to almost get in there why you can you know, while the getting is good. And then once that, that that seven day is over, then the next release is not until another three or four weeks.

Elizabeth Esser  20:44  
And finally, where can listeners find your merchandise? 

Santisha Walker  20:47  
Yeah, so they can find it at WWW.theIAMexperience.shop So that is the I am experienced dot shop. And then once they go there, they can see all of the amazing information and yeah, all the good stuff.

Elizabeth Esser  21:04  
Santisha, thank you so much for joining us.

Santisha Walker  21:07  
You’re welcome Elizabeth, thank you so much for having me.

Eoin Trainor  21:11  
And that is it for this episode of Eye on the Triangle. Thanks for tuning in. If you have any questions, comments, ideas or would like to get involved, shoot us an email at public affairs@wknc.org. We’d love to hear from you. Stay tuned for usual programming. We’ll see you next time.

You’ll Never Believe Me But… is a lighthearted storytelling podcast about what’s real, what’s fake, and what’s funny. Guests come on and tell two stories, one real one fake, and laugh and joke about it with host Cutter as they enjoy storytelling while he tries to figure out which story is the real one.

You’ll Never Believe Me But… is a lighthearted storytelling podcast about what’s real, what’s fake, and what’s funny. Guests come on and tell two stories, one real one fake, and laugh and joke about it with host Cutter as they enjoy storytelling while he tries to figure out which story is the real one.

FULL TRANSCRIPT OF EPISODE
Provided by Otter.ai

Lise Nox  0:00  

The views and opinions expressed during Eye on the Triangle do not represent WKNC or students media.

Lise Nox  0:11  

Hi, this is Lise Nox and you’re listening to Eye on the Triangle. In today’s episode, I had the chance to talk with Deborah Granik, a mental health professional and more precisely a licensed social worker and a psychiatrist nurse practitioner working for Monarch. In a few words Monarch is a North Carolina statewide provider of comprehensive specialty mental health and human services. I’m personally really invested in making mental health matters less taboo. I love having open discussions regarding mental health struggles. So I was really grateful to be able to have this conversation with Debbie. In this episode, we talked about the mental health struggles that the Covid-19 pandemic brought up like work life balance, or how to deal with personal life issues and collective grief at the same time, or maintaining healthy relationships at a distance or setting boundaries. And a lot of other really interesting things. Before we get to the episode, I just like to say if you’re a student at NC State University, and you’re struggling with mental health in any way, you can always reach out to NC State’s Counseling Center to set up an appointment. No matter who you are, where you are, you’re not alone. And you can always ask for help, it does get better. And it starts with breaking the silence talking about it and reaching out for help. That being said, enjoy this episode. Yeah, thank you so much for being on the show. 

Debbie Granick  1:23  
My pleasure. 

Lise Nox  1:24  
Really glad you’re here today. I just figured that with the pandemic and everything that we’ve been going through as a collective for the past year and 2021, there has been so many issues related to mental health that have just, you know, been brought up and being 

Debbie Granick  1:39  
Yes. 

Lise Nox  1:39  
Finally discussed for the first time in a very long time because people have been kind of ignoring all those things related to mental health because you know, when we’re talking about like work life balance and burnout or boundaries with the people you live with, or you know, writing messages elation, or depression, anxiety, it’s like, Yes, all the things that people live with on a daily basis, and they never do anything to actually take care of your mental health,

Debbie Granick  2:01  
Right and without a pandemic, there’s so many natural distractions from all those things, you go out, you go to a bar, you go to friends houses, like all these, you go to the gym. And so I agree, I think the pandemic brought some things up for people, but it also for people who maybe always have those things I get maybe maybe created new mental health issues, or it just exposed mental health concerns that were already there because people couldn’t get away from them or solve them for themselves in the way that they usually do. 

Lise Nox  2:30  
Yeah. And I’ve had personally my own mother had to take a few days off work because she was being completely overworked. And she had she was like diagnosed with burnout. Like she right out. Because there was this idea that since when you’re like you’re at home, 24 seven people just assume you’re available 24/7 

Debbie Granick  2:47  
That’s right, 

Lise Nox  2:48  
To do you whatever they want you to do and she was never really able to say no, or set, you know, any healthy boundaries around where she thought she was supposed to do it all and just like, get everything done as quickly as possible. Because I have time I’m home so I can do everything they asked me to do. I feel like this has been one of the most challenging years for everyone in terms of work life balance, you know, whether we’re talking people working from home, or students like me having online class.

Debbie Granick  3:13  
Right, I agree. And you know, when like, for class, when things are tape recorded, you’re like, oh, I’ll watch it tonight. I don’t want to do it from one to three, like when you would have during your normal class time. But you know what, at night, you don’t realize you actually kind of treasure that time at night to hang out and watch Netflix or whatever. And so it’s the same I think with the work life balance. I think a lot of people when you’re at a job place and you leave at 6pm, there’s a natural, naturally built in to kind of protect your home time, but at home at two o’clock, you’re like I’m sick of working, I’ll just do it later. And then that burnout happens because there’s no none of those boundaries. 

Lise Nox  3:45  
Yeah, your personal life and your work life and every thing else in your life is completely like the strike

Debbie Granick  3:52  
It melds

Lise Nox  3:53  
Yeah, everything is blurred out because there’s no difference between the 2. So you’re a licensed clinical social worker, and a psychiatric nurse practitioner at Monarch.

Debbie Granick  4:02  
So my job consists of talking to people who are struggling with mental health in some capacity. And for the most part using medications, my role is to help them with the medication part of their mental health to find things that help them feel better. I integrate in some counseling and we always stress the non pharmacological approaches to helping people feel better as well. You know, all those normal good health things. So I’m kind of in a combined role focusing mostly on the medication part, but also trying to integrate in some some counseling 

Lise Nox  4:35  
Did you have to go from seeing your patients in real life to having consultations over zoom?

Debbie Granick  4:42  
I did. I very abruptly went from 100% of my client visits being in person to 100% of them being via telehealth, and it was a very quick transition. I think the biggest challenge at first was technology both for us but also for our patients and monarch serves a population that’s very mixed demographically and financially. And many people don’t have access to computers or great Wi Fi or, you know, phones with video capacity. And so I think for lower income people, that transition was even harder, I think, to telehealth, we take for granted that when we say telehealth, that everyone can sit in a quiet place and have a visit. You know, that was another thing actually, is that everyone’s at home. So you’ve got a mom that you’re asking to talk about her depression in front of her 14 year old daughter or eating disorder or her drinking problem. And that also posed a tremendous number of problems. It’s just privacy. You know, I talked to a lot of people in their cars. 

Lise Nox  5:38  
Oh, wow.

Debbie Granick  5:40  
Yeah,

Lise Nox  5:41  
That’s a solution. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I never really thought about this thing of, you know, having difficulty accessing the right technology because I just have a laptop, I have earphones or whatever,

Debbie Granick  5:51  
Right? It’s a very kind of middle upper middle class assumption that you can make that seamless transition to telehealth.

Lise Nox  5:58  
So this was hard for your patients. But what was it like for you? So how did you approach your patients differently over zoom or like through computer?

Debbie Granick  6:06  
I just missed that physical connection, seeing someone a few feet in front of me. And I think it makes empathy easier when you’re together and you’re looking at someone, I also think that the private space of a therapy office is very therapeutic to people to separate like what you were saying about work life balance, to separate from their normal life for a few minutes and step into a therapist or nurse practitioners office for that 25 minutes where there’s no distractions, and it’s you in that professional versus you’re like, in the middle of your your home life. And then you’re like jumping into the bathroom to talk to your provider for a few minutes, or whatever. I think it was a less therapeutic experience kind of on both ends. And you know, for me to like to be working. I mean, I have an office and things like that, but I had dogs somewhere I had kids going to school, online at home. And so your brain is just not as as free to just relax into the moment and truly connect to that person. So I think that was hard on both ends for the providers and for the patients. But I also think over the course of what turned out to be a year and a half. We all got better at it. Yeah, I think we all I think we all got better at it. But we did have to set some boundaries. No, I had to sometimes say to say to a patient, hey, when we talk, can you like be out of bed and be dressed? You know, can you not be driving your car just to try and protect that therapeutic boundary that makes you more available to be engaged in your in your therapy?

Lise Nox  7:24  
You mentioned that a lot of people who are your patients for monarch are very diverse in terms of their income, or in terms of demography, I was thinking earlier about how 2020 and 2021 were rough for everyone, obviously, while we’re all going through this pandemic BIPOC specifically had also to go through this thing of dealing with collective grief of you know, the Black Lives Matter movement. Yes, the horrific death on all over social media. And so did you have patients who had to deal with, you know, their own personal struggle and this collective grief?

Debbie Granick  7:59  
So much, I can barely begin to answer that. Because I think part of the mental health struggle this year was in addition to everyone’s normal, you know, we all struggle, you know, sometimes with anxiety, depression, whatever. And then there’s those of us that struggle more. But during those struggles, we often take for granted certain things that I feel like in this past year kind of start to crumble, like we take for granted that that we can trust the news we take for granted that we can trust certain government agencies, we take for granted that our represented officials that we’re going to feel like they’re out to, to a certain degree, hopefully help us much less like actually do harm to us, right. And I think over the course of the year, we all came to realize like, Hey, we don’t know what to believe. We just don’t know what to believe. Because each side every different fraction was trying to convince us that we were being lied to or that we couldn’t trust anyone or whatever. And that I think more than anything degrades our communal mental health. You know, I was thinking about when we learn about history, and we learn about everyone was watching people land on the moon, everyone was watching when Kennedy was shot, there was no collective everyone was doing anything during 2020 there was a focus on people that vote this way are doing that people that are this color are doing that. And and I think, you know, even in the really hard times, like a president is being shot. It’s calming and nurturing and, and helpful for us to know that we’re all kind of watching and mourning and experiencing this together even if you didn’t vote for that President, right. But just so evident during this pandemic, and all the politics that happened with it was not only are we suffering, not only are we suffering alone, but we’re suffering in communities that we don’t know who cares about us and who doesn’t. And that there might be people that we thought cared about us who now we’ve learned don’t care about us because we just saw them downtown at a rally of some kind that doesn’t represent what we believe. I think it was really very, very hard in that way. And And interestingly and almost kind of funny, I guess, you know, like people that struggle for example, with delusions or paranoia. Um, that we that we recognize as No, this is this is not normal. This is paranoia, we had to kind of question that, like, if someone says, I’m freaking out, I’m paranoid that the police are out to get me, well, maybe two years ago, I would have been like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, the police are there to help you. Right? Like, I think you’re having a delusion. I mean, I wouldn’t really say it quite like that. But right. But this year, I’m like, Well, yeah, I could see you feeling that way. Because of what you’re watching on TV, you know, because of what’s happening. And because of what’s happening in your community, you are right, you know, so I think there were some like, just different kind of things that happened like that. I don’t know if that answers your question. 

Lise Nox  8:15  
But yeah, it’s very interesting, because I was thinking about how all those social justice issues were mostly covered on social media. This has been also another personal but also collective challenge, you know, your relationship to social media during the pandemic, where it’s like, you get just so many things regarding social justice issues, or anything like that on social media all day. So you kind of like get into this Doom Scrolling kind of habit where it’s like, oh, I need to stay informed, I need to know what’s happening, I need to know how to help. And so you kind of get stuck in this vicious cycle of I need to stay informed, I want to help, I want to share resources, but also I am just completely overwhelmed with everything that’s going on. And I can’t take any more, 

Debbie Granick  11:12  
Right, that’s it, I think people just got to those breaking points and and then and then something else would happen. And something else would happen. And we’d be raw from a mass shooting, and then we’d be raw from a you know, a police shooting, and then we’d be raw from a, you know, rally. I mean, like, it just kept coming and coming and coming. And then you know, our leadership our political leadership was not what our country needed at the time to come together. That’s, that’s all that can be said it could have been done so much better. So what could have been a unifying potentially opportunity for people to come together and say, Hey, we all need to help each other to support each other, while experiencing something as a community that’s difficult. Instead, everybody looked inward and turned against each other. And I think when we are afraid for our own safety, we are less inclined to help others. And so our leadership kept telling us to be afraid for our own safety. And so as a community, we all just focused on ourselves. And I think that what we learned is that that’s not human nature, that doesn’t work well, for us. Most everybody is coming out of the last year and a half feeling deeply exhausted, because we are not made to just sit alone and feel fearful, you know, we are created as pack animals that that need each other. And so I think we’re feeling the effects of that with like a communal exhaustion. 

Lise Nox  12:30  
Yeah. Do you think we’re all going to have some kind of collective PTSD? 

Debbie Granick  12:36  
I do. I really do. I think, 

Lise Nox  12:40  
How’s it going to show up? Like, just,

Debbie Granick  12:41  
I don’t I don’t know how it’s gonna show up. But I think I think what came out? I don’t know why I don’t want to get political on this. Or, you know, but I just how it came out that what we took for granted that I mean, can I say something political, I don’t know. 

Lise Nox  12:54  
You’re free too!

Debbie Granick  12:55  
 No. I mean, like that I would have taken for granted that someone who I knew or loved or cared about would not have supported a certain political candidate, or would have supported, you know, Black Lives Matter protesters downtown or something. And then to hear them say something either negative about that, or positive about leadership that I very much disagreed with, I think there were a lot of like, shocking things that came out where we again, realize that what we thought we took for granted what we thought, you know, people kind of were in line with us, or what just make sense to us, that we realized doesn’t just make sense to other people. It’s like that causes a certain amount of trauma we take you know, but to realize that our perspectives, but we assume is kind of common thought or common emotion is not, I think it’s kind of traumatizing, you know, and I’m a white person. So this is just this isn’t even taking into account the communal trauma of the black community to realize how alone in many ways they really were, when they thought we’re thinking, hey, maybe there’ll be more people to come kind of help us out or support our cause. And just to be so supremely disappointed, I think is very traumatizing. 

Lise Nox  14:01  
Do you have any advice or I don’t know, tool that you could give to BIPOC or you know, anyone who has been dealing with PTSD or the aftermath of all the violence that they had to put up with during 2020?

Debbie Granick  14:14  
I would say a couple of things. So on the on the micro level, meaning on the personal level, I guess one thing I feel is that the more in line Our lives are with what our values are, the more healing our life can be. So for example, if I asked you what are your top five values and you say church, family, time alone reading a book, going to school and my dog, and then I say okay, well When’s the last time you you know, hung out with your dog, went to church, spent time alone reading, took a class you liked whatever you’re like, gosh, not a long time. That’s, that’s not gonna be working for you. Right? So the more we can connect the life we’re leading with the values that we share, the more healing the divides that we have that we hold, the more healing it’s going to be. So the first question is like, what is important to me? What are my values and what can I do to be integrated those more fully into the life I’m actually leading every single day. So that’d be one. And then the other, I think, is to reach, you know, to reach out, I think we’ve all turned very inwards, we’re all feeling kind of a little damaged and raw and fearful and rejected. And I think we’ve got to start reaching back out again, and making those connections to the people that help us heal, and that help us feel safe you know that we’re not alone. 

Lise Nox  15:22  
I’ve been able to connect with all my friends and my family and people who live really far away from me. And this has been definitely something that I was very grateful for, during the pandemic, to be able to connect to all those people I care about, at the same time, I just got so exhausted and tired of not having this, you know, physical connection, even when I would like hang out with my friends. It’s like, Oh, we can’t really hug because, you know, there’s COVID and, and this frustration, and this, yeah, just piled up all year, have this social interaction we used to have even though we have the technology, and we have the math, and we have, you know, the tests that we have to take every week to show we’re not infected with COVID. But it’s definitely been really challenging to have a normal, obviously, a normal social life. And also just how do you, you know, maintain a healthy relationship when you might need to do just, you know, the basic thing you’re supposed to do in a relationship, quality time, physical touch, you know, all these things, right? This is really, really challenging. And I feel like a lot of people have resorted to social media to kind of make up for the lack of social interaction. Social media is a very, never ending cycle of dopamine, you just get dopamine and dopamine. And it’s very addictive, when you’re just stuck at home all day, on your phone or on your computer. And the only thing you can rely on is  social media and the dopamine.

Debbie Granick  16:41  
I like this phrase that is don’t compare your insides to someone else’s outsides, because you might be feeling you know, kind of sad or isolated, or alone or rejected or whatever. And then you get on your social media, and everybody looks so happy and great, but that’s their outsides. That’s what they’re putting out there for the world to see. So social media was very connecting for many of us. But at the same time, it really traumatized us with a lot of the stuff we were already experiencing, you know, like feeling alone, or feeling that we’re the only one who believes politically or socially or morally, how we believe or, you know, getting on and seeing, oh, my God, I can’t believe that person is posting that and just being so filled with this rage that has nowhere to go, that was really challenging, I had, well, that’s always challenging, but it is especially challenging in the last year and a half, because people felt so secure putting things out on social media that maybe they wouldn’t necessarily have said to someone if they were having that in person interaction, you know, so I think social media serves a purpose. But I would, at this point, probably be telling people go to where your people are, you know, if your people are at a fundraiser for the hungry, or if your people are doing some kind of social action project, or if your people are at a church or a synagogue, or in a certain kind of class, like go be with your people where you can kind of relax and reconnect and feel that that you’re not alone. And also, I also think, like take the energy, I think a lot of us have this energy to make the world better and to heal. And so it’s like, what can I do with that energy? What little project can I get involved in that will make me feel like I’m doing one piece of the puzzle. You know, I was with a group of women the other day, and we were making these little bags of kind of things we can keep in our cars to hand to someone that who might be like on a street corner or asking for money or something. And they just were bags that had some snacks and water and tissues and some things like that you can be having a bad day. And you pull up to a stoplight and you hand someone this and say hey, I hope your day gets better. And they say, Oh my gosh, thank you so much for caring for thinking of me and you both leave the interaction feeling a little bit better, you know, so I just think, we all need to kind of engage in each other, engage in our community helping and healing and trying to build some bridges back that have been messed up.

Lise Nox  18:51  
So what your saying is that there’s a basically a balance to find between taking care of yourself and staying aligned with your values and what makes you happy and what makes you feel you know, safe and love, self care. Like you have to balance it out with reaching out to other people and making sure that other people are feeling that they’re being taken care of and that they’re feeling safe and they’re being loved. It’s like this balance we have to find and maybe this pandemic was the, you know, this eye opening experience of Oh, maybe all this time, we never really learned how to love each other or care for each other because we’re all just so caught up in our daily lives. And now that we’re forced to spend an entire year either alone or stuck with people we you know, we didn’t really have a choice to be stuck with.

Debbie Granick  19:34  
I mean, I think also in stepping back that we can all re engage a little more intentionally with the relationships that give us energy versus those that take it away. You know, I think we all now have opportunity to re pick our friends and re pick who we’re going to go out with on Saturday night because we’ve been doing nothing so those are the gifts of intentionality that we have now that we can kind of look back and say you know actually appreciated not having to see so and so every week or every couple weeks where I realized that that relationship was really draining, it wasn’t filling me, it was depleting me, and I’m not going to re engage in that relationship. And I think those are good decisions to make. At this point, too, I feel like you can mostly implement with your friendships or you know, like relationships at work or your social life. But what about when you have family members that you don’t really get along with? You don’t really have a choice to like, not be related to this person.

Debbie Granick  20:26  
 Correct, right? 

Lise Nox  20:27  
Responsibility towards your family in this community house. So right? how do you set this intention when it’s your family member, you don’t reall get along with.

Debbie Granick  20:35  
Right. You’re right. So you can’t choose to have relationship, but you can choose the nature of the relationship, you can choose the boundaries of the relationship, you can choose, you know, the limits, or you know, so I think, and that’s a whole other conversation about managing challenging relationships. But you know, when you’re dealing with a toddler, there’s this phrase, like, you can have choices, but then limits right, you can have any staff that’s in this drawer, but mom puts the snacks in the drawer and none of the snacks are doughnuts, right, but you can pick any you want. So it’s kind of like with your family, it’s like, I have to see them three times a year. But within those three visits, I have options, those options are going to include blank by blank that helps me keep my sanity when we’re all together.

Lise Nox  21:12  
I feel like it’s very reassuring to hear you say that for a lot of people who are gonna be listening to this episode and thinking, wow, I spent all of 2020s stuck at home with a family I really don’t get along with and now that I hear you know, the terms personal boundaries, which is something I have never really heard of before. 2020 words like boundaries. What do you mean like just, you know, telling people? No, okay, sure, whatever. But now that I’m learning about how to take care of myself in a time where everything else is calling my name all the time, it’s like, oh, yes, boundaries, right. So I’m actually reading a book right now. And it’s called set boundaries, find peace by a therapist, who works in Turlock, North Carolina. And it’s really interesting, she talks about how to implement those boundaries with the people you care about your family, your co workers, and all this kind of thing. And it’s been really interesting. So I don’t know if you’ve ever like really worked on the subject of boundaries, like with your patient very specifically,

Debbie Granick  22:00  
I do think that comes up a lot in mental health, I think we have to be really careful with that concept. Because I think it’s really easy to say have boundaries but like what you’re saying, it’s not always so easy to implement. And then we don’t want someone to have guilt or shame or rage or distress, because they’re not able to implement what’s in a book. Right? So because our reality is that we do live in community, and it is a struggle. So I think it’s really unique to each person. And I think it’s, I want to validate that it’s a very difficult thing for us all to do to find that line. And there are two, I usually work with my patients to identify like, what is the what are the couple biggest priorities here? Right, like, what are the what are the boundary crossings that most impact your day to day health, well being emotional balance and pick one or two areas to kind of focus on for your boundaries? Because otherwise, you’ll go crazy, right? But yeah, it’s annoying. For example, I don’t know what an example would be. But like, you might have five annoying things that happen. But the one that really makes you crazy is when you know, someone walks in when you’re asleep or something. So that’s the one boundary I’m going to focus on. And instead of being upset about it, I’m going to really think intentionally about what can I actually do to fix this situation, we’ll just do that one. And then when one thing is really protected, maybe other things don’t seem quite as bad. 

Lise Nox  23:20  
Another thing I wanted to talk about with you, which seems very central to COVID, and the pandemic is the question of grief, you have like someone from your family, or you know, someone you care about that died from COVID, or you know, anyone you know, who had someone pass away from this disease. There’s this first question of like, Okay, how do you deal with grief when it’s barely possible to organize a proper funeral or to meet up with other family members, and everything is going on at home and at work, and you have to deal with so many things at the same time, and you have to deal with someone passing away from the very same virus that has been keeping you stuck at home for a year. Did you have any patients that deal with this kind of grief?

Debbie Granick  23:59  
I did. And I think what we talked about a lot is grief is messy, and grief doesn’t always look a certain way or feel a certain way. And even though we grow up with certain grieving rituals, they are just socially constructed rituals. They’re not you know, we do have options and how to make how to adjust them to what we need in our current life. You know, so I think what’s challenging is to recognize Oh yeah, I guess that was just my family tradition or my faith tradition to do blank blank blank after someone dies but we have to adjust it we just have to make these changes you know, and if that means we have to wait a certain amount of time or gather more technologically than in person or pray a little bit different than that’s what we have to do but I think the the baseline I always tell people is that grief doesn’t look the same feel the same for everybody in all situations. Sometimes it looks like crying. Sometimes it looks like rage. Sometimes it looks like drinking too much. Sometimes it looks like going out more with your friends. Sometimes it looks like sleeping all the time. Sometimes it looks like never sleeping and all that is okay. And all that is real and we can work with it as long as we just put it out there and say, here’s what I need help with. But yeah, I think a lot of traditional mourning rituals were really messed up by this for sure. They’re also though, and I’m not trying to deny the negative. But I would say There have also been some positives that have come out of it, people were able to have funerals with family members from all around the entire world, because the funerals were put on zoom. So recognizing identifying and being thankful and expressing gratitude for some of the those things that come out, I think was important to to recognize it. Well, it sucked to not be able to do this, but this was actually a good thing that came out of it that we wouldn’t have been able to do.

Lise Nox  25:34  
trying to see the positive without, you know, falling into this, you know, toxic positivity kind of thing. 

Debbie Granick  25:38  
But nope, that’s right. 

Lise Nox  25:39  
Seeing the positive. still being grateful for the little things that you can get out of a very negative situation. This is very important, just like the Yes. If you all hold on to it’s like, okay, yeah, we weren’t able to set up a funeral. But at least I, you know, talk to my aunt that lives in Spain, and I haven’t talked to her in 10 years. And now I you know.

Debbie Granick  25:59  
That’s right? That’s right, I have a private practice where I just do therapy. And this came up a lot. And one of the phrases that we use a lot in therapy is and also instead of, but also because someone’s if you say, well, this sucks, but you’re kind of negating the, the thing that sucks, but instead use the phrase, and like, this sucks. And also, the good thing happened, of being able to talk to my aunt, kind of recognizing that we can have negative and positive emotion existing simultaneously. And there was a lot of that there was a lot of that that went on in this past year. 

Lise Nox  26:34  
It’s just making space for everything that comes up. 

Debbie Granick  26:37  
That’s right.

Lise Nox  26:38  
Yeah, the pandemic has been a really easy for people to just fall into this very vicious and dark cycle of nothing matters anymore. The world is ending. 

Debbie Granick  26:46  
Absolutely. Right. Absolutely. Or the world is a terrible place. Why should I invest in it? This is awful. Like, are you watching TV, all these things are terrible going on. And you know, like, with the back to the boundaries thing you were saying, I think a lot of people ended up shutting down a lot of those social media, the television, the radio, because they’re just like, I’m maxed out. And I think that’s okay, too. You know, like, we all have to be protective of our own functioning. But at some point, it might be more important to just shut it out for a couple weeks and say, Yeah, I won’t know what’s going on in the world. But I if I do, I won’t be able to function. 

Lise Nox  27:16  
We’ve been talking about like how people have to set personal boundaries with their family members or significant other or any person that you live with, or people who had like a really hard time having alone time did you have to deal with any patient who spent pretty much their entire year alone, you know, people who suffer from loneliness, and they’re already struggling with mental health issues and they had to go through all this alone, like, how, how does that work out for a person?

Debbie Granick  27:41  
I think both extremes for that with were horrible. There are people that went through it alone. There are also people who live in group homes, mental rehab centers, sobriety centers, where they were homeless shelters, where they were forced to live surrounded by people shut in together for long periods of time. And then there were single people, older people who were just really alone and would say, I have literally gone weeks without human touch. I don’t think there’s any other way. Anything to say about that. Except I think there was a lot of suffering. Yeah, I think there was a lot of suffering, and a lot of needing to find other ways to get to get needs met, you know, a lot of saying, Yeah, like, what are you experiencing? And is there any other way to get some of those some of those needs met? I mean, luckily, I feel like we’re coming out of this. And at this point, we can look at the path forward and ask ourselves, what do I need now? what’s what’s missing? What’s still not feeling good? What do I need now? And really choosing with intention, again, representing my deepest values? What do I need to make part of my life to get me up and going, how I want to I want to go and I do think there was a lot of trauma from the past that I try and encourage I use this imagery of like driving a car and I say like that trauma, that depression that anxiety is in the car. But is there a way to live your life without it driving the car, you know, like we have to make room for it is the passenger seat in the backseat it’s not going away. But can it not be the driving force of all the choices you’re making going forward or your emotional well being going forward that those choices are made more by a desire to move forward, but not being able to totally shut down what you’ve been through in the last year, year and a half.

Lise Nox  29:16  
That’s a very beautiful metaphor, I remember reading a metaphor about depression that was like, You think you’re stuck in a hole? Really, you’re just stuck in a tunnel and you have to keep walking till you get to the light, right now your in the dark but you know, like an imagery or like metaphor around mental health usually really helps picturing some kind of hope that you can hold on to is yes, yes. What do you want to talk about? No, yeah, I was gonna say you seem to be working with a lot of very diverse patients, like, you know, BIPOC, homeless people, people who are in sobriety homes or you know, is this something specific to Monarch like you get, you know?

Debbie Granick  29:50  
yeah, monarch monarch serves the population in Wake County that does not have health insurance. It has like the contract for our area to serve people without health insurance. So that includes a lot of people kind of stuck in that economic area of not enough money or not solid enough employment to have commercial health insurance, but not qualifying for any kind of state assistance. So it often gets, you know, a low income population. And then a good chunk of my clients are in sober living centers or in recovery living in homeless shelters. Yeah, yeah.

Lise Nox  30:25  
It’s really amazing. It’s just very, because it just like warms my heart to know that there are companies or, you know, organizations that actually help people who need help with their mental health, you know.

Debbie Granick  30:36  
that’s right. Like this. That’s right. And Monarch is going to help you whether you have money or not. So and that’s its mission and its goal for mental health, intellectual disabilities, has centers all across the state, and the people that work there are uniquely gifted and beautiful people, very committed to serving a population that is often overlooked or unimportant to some other health agency. So I’m feel really honored to work there.

Lise Nox  31:03  
Yeah. How did you end up working for Mark? Um, how did you find them? And like, how did you think, Oh, yeah, this is what I want to do, you know, help people in need? 

Debbie Granick  31:12  
Well, I think the price of healthcare has gotten exorbitant, you know, and I think there’s a lot of people that are left behind. And like I said, I have a private practice, I do serve people that are totally financially fine, who can afford to pay a certain amount for their therapy visits each week, and I find that rewarding, and they find that rewarding, and that’s great. But there’s a huge population that just doesn’t have that opportunity. And I think we’re only as a community as a world, we only function as well as our lowest functioning people. So we need to bring up the bottom for us all as a community or as a as a country to move up. And I don’t mean the bottom, like, why don’t we know, you know, what, you know what I’m saying, like the sickest, the people suffering the most alone or with the fewest resources. And so I found, I just felt like that was a place that I could help, you know, a place that I was really needed. And I think there was just a huge need. The the waitlists are extraordinary. The number of people who need services compared to the services available is it’s always off balance. So I just, I guess, about kind of called to be there. 

Lise Nox  32:13  
This is really, really inspiring, and really beautiful. Because I mean, obviously, you decided to work as a mental health professional. So you had already this calling of helping other people. But no, I mean, not everyone decides to go all the way and decide to join monarch or any other company or organization that actually, you know, helps people who have really low income or low resources or you know, so yeah, really beautiful. Because

Debbie Granick  32:37  
it’s, we it’s called, like community mental health, meaning it really is accessible. The goal is for it to be truly accessible to a community regardless of their economic status.

Lise Nox  32:46  
Because when Monarch reached out to WKNC, to set up an interview, I thought, oh, mental health is something that really matters to me, because I’ve had my personal struggles with it. My family members have had struggles with mental health know, pretty much everyone I know, has that struggle with it. And I thought, Oh, it would be interesting for me to let me talk about it and maybe break like a taboo around it or, you know, raise awareness. It’s just something that really matters to me to be able to talk about mental health without the taboo. Okay, yeah, And this is how they’re doing this, how they’re dealing, like, what can we do about it. 

Debbie Granick  33:19  
And you know, our mental health is amazingly the same based on our common humanity, regardless of source. I mean, it sounds so cliche, but it is regardless of skin color, and economic background and jobs, it we know, what we struggle with, is unique to who we are as, as a human race, and there’s not a whole lot in the mental health field that separates that separates us from each other in that world. So that also is very, I find that very rewarding, you know, to just involve myself in help and humanity and helping humanity. You know, it doesn’t,  nothing else really matters, we have unbelievable amounts of things that are the same between us, even when we come from totally different communities and different backgrounds. And, you know, to really sit with someone and hold their pain or help them hold their pain, to me is a really great gift. And I want to give it to my clients and i and i want for us all to give it to each other. You know, I think that’s how we, when we feel like we’re being held up a little bit, that’s what empowers us to feel like we can take a chance take a risk, you know, try and kind of move in a direction if we feel like there’s other people helping us supporting us.

Lise Nox  34:23  
So you know, like a lot of people who are going, who are going to be listening to this episode, are probably going to be students from the university, like, I feel like they belong to this very specific category of people who are going through their 20s or, you know, their young adult years or their teenage years, and they had to deal with all of the things we talked about, whether it’s about, you know, BIPOC struggles or Black Lives Matter or depression and anxiety or, you know, toxic family members or lack of boundaries. And, we’re all at an age where it’s like very hard for us to you know, have a place in this world and we’re not financially able to sustain ourselves. We still have to rely on this community you were talking about to sustain our Whether we’re talking mental health or finance or whatever, so I guess my question is do you have like advice to give to young people who had to go through this pandemic as students and who didn’t get to have normal graduation or didn’t have to have a normal school year or barely saw their friends. And you know,

Debbie Granick  35:16  
that’s a tough one. I think acceptance is kind of like it was what it was, it is what it is, you know, like, the more we try and label things like that was abnormal, or that was, I would think I would just say, let’s take away the labels. It was what it was, we had that experience that we had, let’s kind of move on from that. I don’t mean put it behind you. But it becomes a rung in the ladder. That’s all that it was, you know, it’s a rung in the ladder on your on your journey. You know, it’s like when I hear these conversations about, Oh, my gosh, we’re going to be set back a year because people missed out on school, we’re not set back like it is the year it is our world. It is what is happening. There’s no timeline out there, there’s no measuring stick out there saying that you’re behind, you know, it just is what it is. It’s the experience that we had. So step on the wrong move, keep going, you know, or step on the rock, go to the next one, that was the rock that was the 2021 2020 rock on the path, nothing can be done about it. So to me we can we can learn from the experience, we can recognize the effect that the experience had on us, but looking taking our energy and putting it into the woulda, shoulda, coulda is energy that could be spent saying, you know, what do I want? Where do I want to go? How can I use this? What’s my next step? Those are more, those are questions that we can answer and that we can do something with the other ones are, there’s no answers to those who knows what would happen if something had been different in the past? We’ll never know, 

Lise Nox  36:35  
I really liked the idea of just going back to the here and now. 

Debbie Granick  36:39  
Yeah. I like the there’s this phrase, I don’t know where I heard this. But anxiety is the workings of our imagination. And if we can recognize that, that when we’re anxious is because our imagination is spinning up all kinds of stories. And what we know is exactly what you said what we know is the here and now the more we can just connect and kind of be with that the more calming and affirming it is.

Lise Nox  37:00  
So do you have like advice tools or anything you’d like to say to people who are going to progressively go back to a normal life or you know, like a, you know, what I mean? Like a normal life in 2021? And you know, soon 2022? And even going for Really? Do you have any mental health advice or anything new, like people to know about their own mental health, something that’s not discussed enough? Or you know, just something you’d like to put out there?

Debbie Granick  37:23  
I would try not to focus on what’s normal, but just focus on what is what what is what’s going to work for you and your community. And try not to think about things with a label of is this the right thing to do? Is this the normal thing to do? But is this what seems a fit for me? Right? And is this what seems a fit for those around me. Another I guess is I do believe that we feel better, we function better when we are helping each other. And you know, whether it’s as simple as intentionally opening or holding the door open for grandma to walk through or holding the door open for someone to walk through all the way to you know, spending a day volunteering at a you know, food pantry, it doesn’t have to be a humungous big thing, it can be a small but intentional phone call to a friend, the more we can engage in those good deeds, I feel like the more those build our our chests, you know, I guess what I’m thinking is this, this vision of like a chest or a treasure box and the balance, or think of a tissue box, we’re pulling out tissues, right. And the balance of the tissues that we pull out when we need to use them needs to be refilled by new tissues. And so we always have to have our eye on that balance. And it’s not going to be perfect every day, every day is not going to be even in even out but overall in the scheme of a couple weeks, a couple months period Am I engaging in things where that take my energy, but am I refilling my energy with things that give me energy so which might be you know, yoga, or calling a friend or hanging out with a with a boyfriend or doing a good deed and then the energy out is you got to go to class you got to work out, you got to look for a job. And then these things are non negotiable, but trying to kind of keep that consciousness of you know what I’m getting burned out. I’m getting in a bad mood, whatever. I think my I think my balance is a little bit off, you know, and kind of recalibrating, and looking. I’m not I’m not getting enough, I’m not giving enough. I think that’s really important. And then I think at some point, we just have to move on from what you kind of called the stigma of mental health. You know, if I say my knee hurts, I can’t go to the track today, I should be able to say, I don’t know what’s up, I’m having kind of an anxious day. I think I need to for some time alone, you know, to try not to have it be such a hidden concept. Because then we all learn from each other 

Lise Nox  39:35  
If you are sick, you can call it work and you call for a sick day. But if you’re mentally you know, struggling, it’s like just go to work like whatever, you’re anxious, who cares. It’s like this needs to change mental health struggles need to be taken more seriously. Right? I really love what you’re so focused on community healing and thriving as a community because they feel like America tends to be very focused on the individual and I feel like this idea of community healing is more something that usually that you find usually in like Asian cultures where it’s like Buddhism or any other religion like this or any other culture where it’s like, community over the individual, whereas in America, it’s usually the individula first It’s really amazing that you’re bringing all of this up, because it’s something that we’ve been all lacking my personal opinion, so it’s a very, very refreshing to finally hear from someone like, yes, we need each other, we need to Yes, be there for each other and take care of each other. And like, you know, obviously, you can’t pour from an empty glass, you need to take care of yourself. Yes, you know, just read a lot on the internet or anywhere else about self care take care of yourself. Yes, for yourself. We never hear about like, what can you do for other people.

Debbie Granick  40:42  
Community care.

Lise Nox  40:44  
Yeah, exactly. Like self care, community care. And I feel like I read so much about self care but never anything about community care. So it’s very refreshing to finally hear someone talk about this. Thank you for bringing this 

Debbie Granick  40:55  
And that to like these, I would say that to is a balance, right? Like just like what you said, your cup, you It’s all a balance the self care, the community care. And I don’t think we function well, when we’re focused on one versus the other for long periods of time. You know, over the course of our life, we have to keep that balance in check as best as we can. 

Lise Nox  41:15  
It’s all about balance every time. 

Debbie Granick  41:16  
Yeah, but reach out any time if you have questions, or if there’s anything else I can be helped you with. And I treasure the opportunity to talk about these kinds of issues. 

Lise Nox  41:24  
Oh, yeah. 

Debbie Granick  41:25  
I feel like it’s really important for the college population, you know, especially as you guys are embarking on moving forward with so many different exciting things and in so many different directions so.

Lise Nox  41:40  
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Eye on the Triangle just listened to Debbie Granick, a licensed social worker and a psychiatrist, nurse practitioner working for Monarch. She talked about the importance of community care and taking care of each other to heal collectively, but also about being in the present moment and accepting things for what they are. Just like I mentioned at the beginning of this episode, if you’re a student at NCC University and you’re struggling with mental health in any way, you can always reach out to NC State’s Counseling Center to set up an appointment. You’re not alone and it gets better. Thank you again for listening. This was Lise Nox reporting for Eye on the Triangle WKNC 88.1 and I guess I’ll see you soon. Take care.

You’ll Never Believe Me But… is a lighthearted storytelling podcast about what’s real, what’s fake, and what’s funny. Guests come on and tell two stories, one real one fake, and laugh and joke about it with host Cutter as they enjoy storytelling while he tries to figure out which story is the real one.

On tonight’s episode we have an interview with Brooke Dickhart, the executive director of the Joel Fund, a local veterans’ nonprofit that recently received a federal grant to implement its therapeutic writing program at Walter Reed Medical Center. Afterwards is Elizabeth Esser’s interview with Dr. Paul Kaloostian, a neurosurgeon and author. They discuss how stress cognitively affects college students.

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